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  Have You Heard of This Test?

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Author Topic:   Have You Heard of This Test?
skipwebb
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posted 06-18-2009 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for skipwebb   Click Here to Email skipwebb     Edit/Delete Message
I got a call from a friend who reported that he was told by another examiner of the DACA ZCT. It was explained as follows:

I
SR
C
R
C
R
R
C

The scoring was explained as a plus in all spots and a plus 6 is NDI. A minus 3 in any spot is a DI (or a total of minus 6 overall)

I called DACA and was told that the only ZCT they teach is the standard Federal ZCT.

Anyone else heard of this "new" testing format?

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pal_karcsi
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posted 06-18-2009 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pal_karcsi   Click Here to Email pal_karcsi     Edit/Delete Message
Two relevants together ? Kind of weird. A good format for a bunch of DI´s.

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Hól vagytok székelyek, e földet biztam rátok.
Elvették töletek,másé lett hazátok.
Vesszen Trianon !


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Barry C
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posted 06-18-2009 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C   Click Here to Email Barry C     Edit/Delete Message
It's a three question version of the Utah MGQT. I don't see how DIs would be a problem. You score to the strongest reaction on either side of the RQ, even if you have to "jump" an RQ.

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Barry C
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posted 06-18-2009 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C   Click Here to Email Barry C     Edit/Delete Message
I should add that I'd add a neutral after the SR to give the person a chance to get back to baseline to avoid the CQ reactions being attenuated, so to speak, if he's still reacting to the SR when it's time to ask it.

Those are the Utah scoring rules. Notice they don't require a +3 in every spot to conclude NDI (which makes a NDI harder than a DI that only requires a -3 in any spot).

[This message has been edited by Barry C (edited 06-18-2009).]

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Buster
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posted 06-18-2009 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message
_______Quote________________________________
You score to the strongest reaction on either side of the RQ, even if you have to "jump" an RQ.
________________________________________

Barry, I think I know what you mean here, but can you clarify.

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Barry C
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posted 06-18-2009 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C   Click Here to Email Barry C     Edit/Delete Message
Okay.

C1 R1 R2 C2

You would score R1, for example, to the strongest reaction (channel by channel) of either C1 or C2. That is, you could "jump over" R2 to use C2.

Keep in mind that it's channel by channel, so you could score the EDA in R1 against C2 if C2's EDA was stronger than C1's. Then, if C1's cardio was stronger than C2's, you'd score that component (channel, whatever) to the cardio in R1. You'd do the same for R2, meaning you could jump R1 to score to C1 if that CQ had the stronger component of interest.

So, in short, if an RQ or two RQs are bracketed by CQs, then (in the Utah Scoring System) you score to the strongest CQ on either side of the RQ or RQs.

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Buster
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posted 06-20-2009 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks, but I was taught that the whole basis of the Utah is scoring the relevant with the adjacent control. I thought Utah ignored the picking of the strongest reactions.


[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 06-20-2009).]

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rnelson
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posted 06-20-2009 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson   Click Here to Email rnelson     Edit/Delete Message
Buster,

You are correct. The Utah 3 question format (what we sometimes call the Utah Zone) is scored left, to the preceding CQ. However, the Utah 4 question format (what we sometimes refer to as the Utah MGQT), is 4 RQs bracketed by 3 CQs, and is scored to stronger bracketed CQ per each component.

r

------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)


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Buster
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posted 06-20-2009 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Nelson, is this a technique you recommend. I know the asnwer to that question is usually "it depends" but in general?

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Barry C
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posted 06-20-2009 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C   Click Here to Email Barry C     Edit/Delete Message
[quote] I was taught that the whole basis of the Utah is scoring the relevant with the adjacent control. I thought Utah ignored the picking of the strongest reactions [quote]

The Utah MGQT (the test Skip listed) does go against the rationale for the Utah ZCT format to which you refer. The N C R question order is used to "bring a little balance" to the test. The N serves to allow the a person to be at baseline when the CQ is presented. The RQ follows and assumes, that for the innocent, there's less "reaction room" on the RQ because the examinee likely hasn't fully recovered from the CQ.

You can score any CQT with the Utah scoring system, and yes, they score to the stronger adjacent CQ. That means if you're scoring a Canadian A-Series or a Federal ZCT, for example, you'd score R5 to the stronger of C4 or C6.

You can run the Utah ZCT with two RQs (Charles Honts at NPA 2009) if you'd like, but as he asked, "Why would you want to give up data?" You can run the Utah MGQT with three RQs instead of four (as Skip posted) because it doesn't make sense to add a fourth sham question just to make the questions "fit" a rigid format. (Sometimes four RQs is too many, which is why we do the same with the AF MGQT.)

If you want, you can run the Utah ZCT format as an MGQT and always score to the right (unless you've got an artifact in the preceding RQ), but just score the RQs according to Utah MGQT scoring rules. (You can also run the Utah MGQT like you would the ZCT....)

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Barry C
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posted 06-20-2009 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C   Click Here to Email Barry C     Edit/Delete Message
By the way, it was Dr. David Raskin, the Godfather of the Utah family, who told me it's the Utah ZCT and Utah MGQT even though we don't see it written like that to describe the tests.

To avoid confuson, I think it's safe to say a Utah ZCT (regardless of the format or question structure) is a true single-issue test, and a Utah MGQT is a multi-facet test.

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rnelson
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posted 06-20-2009 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson   Click Here to Email rnelson     Edit/Delete Message
Excellent points Barry.

The point of it all is not to comply with some rigid rules, but to adhere to some validated principles.

The N C R sequence seems to attempt to make use of the law of initial values, by using the N to help ensure the examinee's physiology has returned to stable homeostatic tonic levels, through a process called allostasis, thereby improving the maximum potential response and benefit to a truthful examinee from the CQ. The N C R sequence in the Utah ZCT is scored to the preceding adjactent CQ, unless the CQ is artifacted and unusable, and then you can simply score to the closest interpretable CQ.

The Int SR N C R R C R R C N sequence of the Utah MGQT seems to violate the inherent princple of N C R and the law of initial values. However, you can, if you like, think of the opportunity to score the RQs to the Stronger bracketing CQs as attempting to make up for the assumed loss of response the CQ, due to the change in question sequence.

Decision rules differ for Utah ZCT and Utah MGQT. Utah ZCT decision policies are total score only (+/- 6), with no consideration for individual spot. Utah ZCT is a single issue test with 3 primary RQs. No fancy-schmancy unproven hypothetical stuff involving weak RQs, or evidence connecting things. The guy did it (the bad thing) or didn't. Simple. So, three RQs, that describe the examinee's behavioral involvement in the bad thing, and that's it.

Utah MGQT is an adaptation of the Utah ZCT. It is intended for use when a multi-facet format or multi-issue (mixed issue) format is needed. Utah MGQT decision policies are total score (regardless of mulit-facet or mixed issue), as long as all values are + or all values are - (ignoring zeros). If the values are mixed (some +, some -) then the Utah MGQT, uses individual spot scores. This may not make intuitive sense to polygraph examiners, but to statisticians and people who play with inferential decision models it makes perfect sense (it's good science). To us polygraph examiners, who read the actual questions, the RQs are distinct logical issues. Once the data are gathered, the distinctness or similarity in the the logic of the question language no longer matters to a statistician or decision theorist. What matters is whether the measured mathematical values are similar or difference. So, even if the behaviorally descriptive topics of the RQs are distinct, if the measured numerical values are similar it is sound and valid science to work with them all together. The decision theoric advantage of this will be more powerful classification efficiency (and that means better accuracy and fewer INCs to you and me.)

BTW, OSS-3 uses a similar solution when using decision policies designed for mixed-issue screening exams - except the algorithms replaces some procedural instructions with a fancy piece of non-parametric math called a Kruskal-Wallis equation. At APA 2007 we showed a poster session that demonstrated that these policies are significantly better than what we would observe or expect from traditional spot scoring rules.


Innit great having techniques designed by scientists.

r

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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)


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